The Atheist Pig

June 2012
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http://howlandbolton.com richardelguru

In this otherwise excellent cartoon one would be delighted to find the agreement of number maintained: either ‘the FF’s religious belief is’ or ‘the FF’s religious beliefs are’. Thank you.

Harold

It’s very plural Rich. History proves that.

http://howlandbolton.com richardelguru

Damn! It removed my ‘Persnickety Bastard’ tag!!

http://www.twitter.com/MichaelEdits Michael LaRocca

I spent 5 1/2 years in China. Every semester, a student tried to Christianize me. He or she always failed.

freethinkin franklin

wonder if “little miss fundie” in the comic, as well as many walkin and talkin fundies realize that our FF were far more intent on instilling and maintaining our right to free speech , then they were about what fairy tale folks fell victim too…

Harold

That’s a no brainer Frank and exactly why after over 240 years no laws have been passed requiring and specific religious behaviors. But I guess if you people feel good about debating fiction, then go for it.
- moongrimm
  
  Actually Harold there are several states’ constitutions that REQUIRE one to acknowledge God if one wants to hold political office.
  http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/StateConstitutions.htm
- Greg
  
  Although, those article are on the STATE books, I don’t BELIEVE they are inforced and CONGRESS had nothing to do with them anyway.
  
  They also seem to be an indicator of what the state founders believed. Very interesting….
  - moongrimm
    
    And were not challenged until recently.
    
    See to the fiction in your own eye- Wayne Sockpuppet.

moongrimm

Leave it to a Religious Wackjob to ignore the reality of the Treaty of Tripoli…

The same folks who want to channel tax dollars to religious schools don’t want any Muslim schools getting them good x-tian tax dollars.

It’s quite true, neither the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, and the Bill of Rights make any mention of Jesus nor the Bible….

Well Hell, if you want a country where there is no “Big Bad Government”, and Plenty of Guns along with a state religion- move to Somalia!

Greg

I don’t believe anyone has made that claim Moon. Sometimes you people like to argue with ignorant concepts, things I’ve never heard before. Very humerous though.

Our founding father were very specific with the 1st amendment to avoid problems like what had happened in Europe.
- moongrimm
  
  And what Claim do you refer to Greg?
  
  Google Louisiana for school vouchers being denied to a parochial Muslim school.
  Ditto for the Christian Nation Myth.
- Robin
  
  Actually, I kind of liked Moon’s idea that those who want limited government should move to Somalia. Think of all the proselytizing they could do!
- Harold
  
  It’s funny how limited our government was for the 1st 175 years (with tremendous success and no debt ceiling to worry about) and how during the last 75 years (social warfare, entitlements, debt crisis) when can’t seem to survive with it.
  
  How DID they do it before FDR?
  - freethinkin franklin
    
    do you mean how did the robber barons sleep at night in their gilded mansions, while the majority went hungry after losing their father brother and grandfather in yet another mining accident… or maybe it was their mother sister and aunt lose in a factory fire because the exits were chained shut….or did you mean how did we survived the diseases and sicknesses brought on from unsafe unregulated dumping of industrial waste into our air and water…. as i recall it wasn’t that long ago that the Cuyahoga river and Lake Erie burnt for a few days… do you think that might be a sign that something might be wrong?? or is that a biblical miracle…. water to wine water on fire… kinda close. i find it very shortsighted to link taking care of human beings to our debt when we spend far more on military then could ever be needed…. and your so called “entitlements” are something we have all paid into, that’s why we are “entitled” to them… why such a hatred of those less fortunate then ourselves ? where does that come from ?… its not an American trait, at least it wasn’t until the teatards showed up on the scene with Goddess Palin and her hypocritical brood.
  - Harold
    
    Really all that changed since FDR… or are you rewriting history again?
    - freethinkin franklin
      
      no, much of it is still the same or worse because of people like you….
Greg

This claim, “It’s quite true, neither the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, and the Bill of Rights make any mention of Jesus nor the Bible….” or for the claim that our FF’s created a Christian nation. They may have found a nation comprised of a majority of Christians, but that’s it.

Can’t use vouchers for religious schools. I would have though you appreciated that.
- freethinkin franklin
  
  here’s a list of cases where it disproves the statement that tax payer funded vouchers can’t be used in religious schools… they will not stop their attempts to get some of the funds from the big gubberment they hate for its wasteful spending… there is nothing more wasteful then spending money on myths… i also find it hypocritical that they want “gubberment out of their lives” until it comes to a womens uterus… then they want gubberment all over that dictating how a women can and should use her uterus according to their myths “laws”
  
  http://www.au.org/issues/school-vouchers-government-subsidies-religious-schools
- moongrimm
  
  Vouchers ARE being used for parochial schools.
  
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/louisiana_n_1593995.html
  
  Get the Facts, man.
Anonymous

I’m generally liberalist but gun rights are something I’m not against; after all, they save many, many more innocent lives than they kill. (and the people who die as a result of murder by firearms? Gun rights aren’t at fault there either, it’s because criminals kill people)
- freethinkin franklin
  
  i agree, but how does this fit in to the comic?? are you thinking the gubberment is coming for your guns?? thats a GOP ploy/lie that has been used for decades to get middle class / working class voters to vote against their own economic self interests… don’t fall for it…..
  - Anonymous
    
    Since it was brought up, I thought to make a note of it.
    Strange thing is, I’m:
    Pro-gun ownership
    Pro-choice
    Support the death penalty in principle (actual practice can be flawed)
    So lol maybe I’m pro-death?
    At least I don’t advocate violence as much as the Christian god does.

moongrimm

Atheists- 1

Theists- zip.

freethinkin franklin

hi guys… seeing how one of those running for our nations highest seats, the presidency, is a Mormon i thought you might like learning a bit more about them and their brand of voodoo…..
both links are good reads…

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/lds/22.html

http://www.janishutchinson.com/agenda.html

one would hope that in the 21st century we didn’t have to worry about any superstitions playing a role in our lives , yet alone our government and beyond…. please please please VOTE !!!

Troll hunter

Ah Mormons you know your religion is batshit when the guys from south park make a musical about you.
If you haven’t seen The Book or Mormon then you’re missing out.
Highly recommend it.
- freethinkin franklin
  
  have we become a whacko wayne free zone???
  - moongrimm
    
    Perhaps Mr. Wayne went back onto his meds?

gex

Whenever I get the “if you don’t like it, why don’t you leave” question I just point out that they have just loudly denounced participatory democracy like every good totalitarian would.

Greg

We live in a Republic, not a Democracy. True it’s a Democratic Republic, but a Republic none the less. One could argue that we are now a Socialist Republic. You know the U.S.S.A. (United Socialist States of America).
- moongrimm
  
  Technically it’s a representative republic. Though we are morphing into Fascistic Kakistocracy.
- freethinkin franklin
  
  that’s just foolish unfounded scare tactic gibberish…..
  - freethinkin franklin
    
    Greg i was referring to your “U.S.S.A. (United Socialist States of America).” comment. that’s just foolish unfounded scare tactic gibberish…….. one could also argue (and more convincingly i might add) that we are becoming or have already become yet another acquisition of corporations… and without a doubt 99.9% of congress have already been bought.
    - Greg
      
      Franklin, what do you call redistribution of wealth by the government?
      
      I’m ok with helping out, but it’s gone too far and it’s not the governments job. Tax payers spent 59 BILLION last year on the EITC, nevermind all the other entitlements.
      
      We are a very giving country without the rule of law. Look at the outpooring of relief after huricanes, earthquakes and tsunami’s by individuals.
      
      As a nation, we can NOT afford to continue spending like this. It’s Economics 101. Do you spend more then you make with your family finances?
    - freethinkin franklin
      
      Wayne err i mean “Greg” your redistribution argument doesn’t fly… you’ve got it backwards… our government is “redistributing ” our wealth, but its not from the top to the bottom, its from the bottom, and middle to the top…. taxes are the lowest they have been in decades and corporate welfare as well as military spending are at the highest they have ever been, all while our schools bridges hyways ports dams and other infrastructure crumbles…. when 90% of the nations income goes to the wealthiest 2% of the population and kids school lunch programs are being cut, your right something is wrong, something is getting redistributed, but its not going to those hungry needy kids… its going to the likes of the koch brothers whom have bought most of our right-wing lawmakers. government does have a roll in our lives, it is needed, but its goal shouldn’t be to assist the rich to get richer, the private sector to dump waste into our rivers , drinking water, or air at will to increase profit, or to by-pass workers safety to maximise profit… it should be to help those of us, those that have not been born into wealth ( and that is how 90% of wealth is acquired, through birthright), those who need a strong kind government the most, not the koch brothers …. keep in mind social security and medicare are something we ALL have paid into… it was greedy politicians that have run amuck with those funds causing the damage those programs are in…. and America IS a nation that wants to help those less fortunate , despite some of our bought and paid for politicians. so in turn stop buying fighter jets we do not need (we have the 1st and 2nd largest collection of defencive /offencive aircraft in the world #1 belonging to our Air Force #2 belonging to our Navy), stop giving corporations subsidies at tax payers expense, and stop giving the rich, the corporations and the churches tax breaks, they should ALL pay their fair share and do it proudly as American patriots !!
    - Ozzie
      
      Franklin Greg is right do your homework on what the EITC is. It redistributes taxes from tax payers to non tax payers or in excess of what some pay in taxes.
      
      Ignorance is bliss!
    - Ozzie
      
      Your side just continues to deny the facts.
    - freethinkin franklin
      
      Ozzie do you mean like GE not paying a dime in taxes yet getting a 300 million tax return… or do you mean Exxon not paying a dime yet getting millions in subsidies ?? either way i’d by far rather help the poor and needy then the rich and greedy… ignorant is using faith to override fact, so enjoy your blissful ignorance…. BTW.. now there’s a your side and an our side ?? i thought we were all Americans working for a common goal… guess the divide and conquer bunch is winning….
    - Ozzie
      
      No Franklin we are talking about redistribution not tax breaks that’s an entirely differnt discussion. Stick to the topic spin man.
    - freethinkin franklin
      
      oh so our tax dollars do not go in and get redistributed through social programs as well as subsidies ?? to say the “redistribution” of our tax dollars only counts when its given to the needy and its something completely different when the money goes to the greedy is IGNORANT and a clear denial of facts !! second WAYNE, you do not get to tell me ever what i can or can not talk about … get it !?! one more thing WAYNE your so called “entitlements” are exactly that entitled to those of us that have paid into them…. what is not part of the “entitlement” is an entitlement to raid those funds as many greedy politicians have in the past…
    - Ozzie
      
      Your last 2 post are a good ones Franklin. I do enjoy your tantrums and the ignorance you spew.
    - freethinkin franklin
      
      ignorance Wayne is making up sock-puppets to hide behind and thinking we wouldn’t know it…. ignorance and embarrassment were why you had to abandon your “Wayne ” account…. it must be disheartening to see how easy facts can blow holes through your weak arguments, but ignorance is what has you standing by them even after you’ve been shown they are wrong… your dishonesty and complete lack of honor speaks volumes about you and the religion you claim to base your life on…
- Robin
  
  And we all know what happened to the USSR when good ‘ol Ronnie Raygun forced them to spend most of their budget on their military don’t we (wink wink)

http://gplus.to/thealphageek Alan Bombria

Shocking! Angelfire is still operational?

freethinkin franklin

why… ???

Ozzie

There is an inaccuracy in the cartoon. Our founding fathers did NOT create a Christian nation. However being that they were a very large majority of Judeo/Christians our country was founded on their Judeo/Christian principles.

Timmy

Well said Ozzie
- moongrimm
  
  I sense a great sockpuppetry in the force.
Ozzie

It’s just a matter of fact Timmy.
moongrimm

Would you care to give a few examples of these Judeo/Christian principles are, that the United States was founded upon?
- Ozzie
  
  I don’t feel the need to quote our FF’s. That was done in on another cartoon. You know what they are because I saw you there.
  - moongrimm
    
    That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
    
    Ozzie dismissed.

sleepingkirby

Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t most of the founding fathers protestant rather than christian? Hence why we’re give the right to protest? And wasn’t one of the reasons why they put freedom of religion in the constitution because England was forcing people to be of one religion at the time?

Greg

“Our founding father were very specific with the 1st amendment to avoid problems like what had happened in Europe.”

I agree with your last statement. Above is my quote from an earlier post.
The Atheist Pig

It’s funny, but the definition of Christian can be cloudy in Christian circles. Many Protestants view themselves as Christians while Catholics not so much.

And the same can be said for some Catholics.

And of course many “true Christians” don’t think much of the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses.
- Greg
  
  Very true.
- Sleepingkirby
  
  Did the founding fathers consider themselves Christian? I mean, saying that the founding fathers were christian in that context is kind of like saying that asians were part of the axis during wwII or that asians are communists. Just because they are “christian” doesn’t mean that they have the same views, values, principles, etc, that fundamentalists, born again, lutheran, etc, have. In fact, their view on religion, god, human rights, etc is probably vastly different. Just as I can’t say that all asians eat pig’s foot, raw fish or dog. So, from that aspect, saying that the founding fathers were christian, and therefore, founded this country on christian principles is over-generalized and misleading. By that logic, I can say that the founding father believed in the one true god, and hence, founded the country on a islamic foundation (or really, any religion that claims to be monotheistic and promotes the basic things like not killing people at random… which is really most monotheistic religions.).

sleepingkirby

LOL, I forgot to mention. I DO speak chinese and I was born in Taiwan. So if I’m right… does that mean a chinese person to know more about american history than the average american?

freethinkin franklin

key word there is “know” many claim to know things when in fact they just think they know… actual facts and true knowledge have become very elusive these days….

Wayne

I still love the thought of touching Jesus. Mmmmmm -Jesus.

moongrimm

Play your cards right and you can have Jesus Morales touch you back.

God is a fraud.

gex

Wow, thanks for the pedantry instead of just getting the point of what I said. It’s too bad I had no relevant point because I didn’t dick around with the precise description of our political system even though it is roughly a form of democracy with the whole citizens participating thing.

Because I was further from understanding how the US works than the totalitarian jerks who say “like it or leave” apparently.

gex

Oh, and you know what else? There are 31 states that passed constitutional amendments against SSM via a direct initiative on the ballot. That is DIRECT DEMOCRACY. Voters vote on policy, not representatives. Every single place there is a SSM ban it was done via DIRECT DEMOCRACY. A few places have used representative democracy to pass SSM via legislation or court ruling. But for the most part, SSM policy has been passed DIRECTLY and DEMOCRATICALLY by individual votes from voting citizens.

But do please keep picking that nit.

freethinkin franklin

if it was up to “direct democracy” blacks wouldn’t be able to vote, go to the same schools as white kids, eat at the same lunch counters as whites or drink from the same water fountain… interracial marriage ?? gone a woman’s right to vote ?? never happened.. and there would be a very very good chance we would be a theocracy instead of a democratic republic… so I’m calling “PIGSHIT” on the “direct democracy” argument ! very few totalitarian regimes look after taking care of and/or instilling basic civil rights to all its citizens based on the discrimination of the few.

Anonymous

Anyways, was this here comic in honor of dear Wayne?

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