The Atheist Pig

July 2012
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Boston – Standing up for what’s right

by Dakotah Hicock on July 20, 2012 at 8:00 pm

Posted In: Blog

Mayor Thomas Menino of Boston has proposed banning Chick-fil-a in Boston because of their stance on gay marriage and gay rights.

We’ve known for a while now that Chick-fil-a has donated to anti-gay groups, and groups to fight equality. After recent statements from the President of Chick-fil-a, the mayor of Boston has decided to try and block the opening of new stores within Boston.

Mayor Menino said to the Boston Herald, “Chick-fil-A doesn’t belong in Boston. You can’t have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against a population. We’re an open city, we’re a city that’s at the forefront of inclusion. … That’s the Freedom Trail. That’s where it all started right here. And we’re not going to have a company, Chick-fil-A or whatever the hell the name is, on our Freedom Trail.”

I personally support the mayor’s decision, and feel that Chick-fil-a should be an open and accepting company regardless of the owner’s beliefs. If the owners want to donate to anti-gay groups, that is their decision, but to donate on behalf of a corporation is wrong. Discuss in the comments.

Also, this is my first post! To introduce myself, I live in Texas, I am openly atheist and openly gay, and you might recognize me as the one who remodeled this site. I’m happy to write here and share what I find.

Dwindex

Why are you forcing your beliefs on other people? How about Atheist groups be banned from owning property in my town? If you disagree with their beliefs, don’t support them and don’t work for them. Don’t use the government to enforce your bigotry.
- Sleepingkirby
  
  1) Most of us here probably don’t live in boston.
  2) Those that visit here probably don’t go to chick-fil-a nor support them
  3) We’re not the one’s doing it. It’s your mayor. If you have a problem with this, take it up with him. We had nothing to do with it. We’re just discussing the story.
  
  P.S. If you don’t agree with what I just said, don’t support this site, stop visiting it. Don’t force your opinion on us. (see how it goes both ways?)
  - dwindle
    
    I’m not forcing you to do anything, nor do I support anyone who forces others to obey their religious principals – you’re doing that.
- Anonymous
  
  If you don’t like this then maybe you can also petition for the boy scouts to allow atheists in.
  Just sayin’.
  - Sleepingkirby
    
    Okay, that made no sense. What are you trying to say?
  - dwindle
    
    The Boy Scouts are not a public governing agency. I couldn’t care less what private groups do.
- moongrimm
  
  Don’t use the government to enforce your bigotry.
  Yo Dwindex. Where is your concern for the Republican’s war on women?
  - Geddy
    
    Another lie from moongrimm.
  - dwindle
    
    Get back in the kitchen.
- Shecky Hitler
  
  Dwindex: “forcing your beliefs on other people.” Why…that sounds downright Christian.
  - dwindle
    
    It does. Remember that the next time you’re forcing other people to agree with you.
Chakolate

This is not good. I appreciate the mayor trying to show support and inclusion for gays, but this is not the way. Freedom of religion means just that, and freedom of speech means just that. If the city is truly inclusive, then companies that proudly display their bigotry will go out of business all on their own.

Or as has been said, the answer to bad speech isn’t banning speech, it’s more speech.
- Sleepingkirby
  
  I can understand your point and to a degree, I agree. But as mayor of boston, isn’t this his freedom of expression? Also, would something like desegregation in the south happened without governmental intervention? While I do prefer speech be the way to settle issues, history has shown that, sometimes, it’s just not enough. Sometimes, someone in a position that matters must take a stand.
  - PolarisNC
    
    This doesn’t qualify as the Mayor’s freedom of expression because he’s using the power of government to enforce it.
    - Sleepingkirby
      
      So you’re saying he’s using the power granted to him by the government when he was elected by the people. Which, may not be freedom of expression, I admit, but is still within his right as this is part of the job he was elected for.
  - dwindle
    
    So what are you saying, the Government should step in and force this guy to let Chic Filet in?
    
    You’re not talking about protecting someones rights, you’re talking about forbidding them.
    
    Sorry, forget the spelling.
- freethinkin franklin
  
  this is not a morality issue, its a civil rights issue, its about equality for ALL…. government has no place in pushing morality, but its job it to ensure equality and civil rights for all… what if bobby kennedy or LBJ never stood for equality for all… what if all stood silent when women were fighting for their right to vote?? the sad point in all these fights is that our elections pivot around these no-brainer issues when we have far more pressing issues that should be addressed. even sadder is the fact that now as well as back then, there are some that proclaim to love and promote freedom while at the same time attempting to withhold it from others , even going as far as calling for constitutional amendments to deny equality and civil rights from fellow Americans…. despicable !!
  - Shecky Hitler
    
    Well put (as always.) If this were about discrimination of gender, age, race, or disability…then it’s a “civil rights issue.” But, when it’s discriminatory against someone’s sexual preference…it’s a “morality issue.” What a huge steaming pile of bool$h!t.
    - dwindle
      
      Where do you see anyone being discriminated?
      - freethinkin franklin
        
        when the same rights you and i have are being blocked from others thats discrimination !! do i really have to explain these things to you?? are you part of the palin family?
Hypersapien

” And we’re not going to have a company, Chick-fil-A or whatever the hell the name is”

If you’re the mayor of a major city and you’re going to get up and do a speech about a particular company, shouldn’t you be sure of what the name of the company is before you get in front of the podium?
- Chris T
  
  Dearest Hypersap: “…whatever the hell the name is…” refers to the possibility that there is another company out there that the mayor probably doesn’t know about that he wants to impose his narrow minded views upon as well. This should have been obvious since he spelled the name of the company properly which I doubt you could have done based on your ASSumption regarding what he was referring to.
  - Sleepingkirby
    
    So you’re making an ASSumption about what the mayor meant when he said that?
    
    Plus, Hypersapien was agreeing with you on the point that the mayor is a moron for doing this…
Chris T

Gee, Mayor Menino, “You can’t have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against a population.” means you also can’t have a publicly elected official discriminating against a legitimate business in your city. It’s not going to take very many lawyers to put you back in your hypocritical pigeon hole. You idotic moron.
- Sleepingkirby
  
  Actually, you can. It’s been done. Just not to a chick-fil-a
  http://journalstar.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_fd669fad-7f94-506a-b0e9-27f76a917bfa.html
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_county
  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16fastfood.html
  http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/CALIFORNIA-Top-court-turns-down-Wal-Mart-2531747.php
http://sadpolitics.com Jim Davis

I applaud the mayor’s position. At the same time I must admit there’s likely little he can actually do legally (and that anything he might try to do is very likely illegal).

To be clear tho: This isn’t a free speech issue – nobody is impacting anybody’s ability to speak. Or, for that matter to worship. Selling chicken isn’t “speech” or “worship”. The mayor is making it clear that his community would not appreciate their business based on their ethical positions.

If this opinion isn’t truly that of his community then they’ll elect somebody else. Although he is serving his nineteenth year. He’s a fumbling, mush-mouthed lug – but he does know Boston (he’s currently serving his 19th year as mayor).
- roastpotato
  
  Well said Jim!
  I do love a politician who says what he wants to rather than using the bland poltician speak like the rest of them, and I really hope this one keeps on getting elected.
  We had a wonderful guy here in London UK called Ken Livingston but so sad he lost being our Mayor to an amusing but politically safe Boris Johnson
- dwindle
  
  He is forcing out a group of people he doesn’t agree with. What if some mayor refused to let a company in because it was owned by gays? Would you be so proud?
salahhe

For those of us who come here for the cartoons:
can you make a separate blog with only that? or mark your titles somehow so we don’t waste or time opening the posts with whatever else?
- Sleepingkirby
  
  You mean like this:
  http://www.theatheistpig.com/category/comic/
  as opposed to this:
  http://www.theatheistpig.com/category/blog/
  ?
  
  The pig marks his entries for what’s a comic and what’s a blog. The default of the site is to show all categories. Most of us regulars read both so we’ll comment on both.
  - salahhe
    
    Somehow this doesn’t help me. My igoogle shows me both.
    - freethinkin franklin
      
      the comics reflect the same issues that are being discussed here. to hide from there effects on us all is doing yourself and others an injustice, plus i do not think clicking on then closing a link will not stop the world from spinning and it might open some eyes to very important pressing issues facing us all…
    - sleepingkirby
      
      can you elaborate what you’re looking for exactly? The links I gave you separates the blogs from the comics so you only see 1 or the other if you navigate from that page. If you’re looking to not see our comments or only the articles you want to see, that’s not going to happen. The best advice I can give you is don’t scroll down past the article.
Anonymous

Some Christians are such hypocrites. They always want their own special place and yet they can’t tolerate someone else giving another party their honored status. Double standards galore.
- Sleepingkirby
  
  I’m not sure this statement has any relevance to the story posted. Can you elaborate?
- dwindle
  
  What Christian public leader is forbidding a business from operating because of their religious beliefs?
  - freethinkin franklin
    
    ask any gentlemens club owner how many buybull thumpers showed up at the town board meeting opposing his business from opening…. ask larry flint about jerry fartwells attempts at preventing flint from his constitutional rights…. do you live under a rock or are you just so durnk on tea that facts and reason don’t allpy in your world?
Madness

I can’t help but feel that if Chik-fil-A had been donating to Al Qaeda, then people wouldn’t be popping up crying about freedom and restrictions on freedom of expression.
moongrimm

You can tell it’s an election year.

As much as I like to see such homophobia be a thing of the past, I do tend to get nervous when the government decides which businesses are good and which are bad.
Just because I disagree vehemently with Chick-fil-A’s position today, may mean that tomorrow a Mayor of another city will play a one upmanship with a corporation they don’t care for.

Yet, how many times have the Reich Wingers called for a ban on some corporation they don’t care for? Oreos anyone?
- dwindle
  
  “Called for” and “Forcibly using the Government authority” are two different things. I have no problem with people refusing to go to or work for Chic whateva.
http://saoili.blogspot.com Saoili

http://ethicsalarms.com/2012/07/21/ethics-quote-of-the-week-ken-at-popehat/
PolarisNC

While I am a Christian I am a proud supporter of gay rights and have, as a matter of personal choice, refused to patronize Chick-Fil-A for over a year now. As much as I appreciate the mayor taking a stand on the issue, I find it disturbing that he has no better grasp of civil rights than this.

Simply put, government actors cannot discriminate against people or corporations simply because they donate to causes that are offensive or unpopular. Doing so is government thuggery, and that is far more dangerous than any speech on the part of private (or corporate) citizens.

http://www.popehat.com/2012/07/20/eat-less-totalitarianism/
- Sleepingkirby
  
  I would agree with you, but the truth is, government actors have in the past.
  http://journalstar.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_fd669fad-7f94-506a-b0e9-27f76a917bfa.html
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_county
  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16fastfood.html
  http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/CALIFORNIA-Top-court-turns-down-Wal-Mart-2531747.php
  
  No one seemed to be as outraged as when a chick-fil-a was banned in 1 city.
Kay Warren

Part of the reason Chick-fil-a can get away with this crap is due to how they’re structured. Each restaurant is opened as a joint venture between the founder, Truett Cathy, and the person who will be opening said restaurant. This gives Chick-fil-a “headquarters” an unprecedented amount of control. They sell Christian DVDs for kids. I think they even have a”veggie tales” version of a “happy meal”.

They will tell you they have scholarships for workers to go to college, but I can tell you about kids who worked for their scholarships being fired for bogus and trumped up reasons just as they reach eligibility.

I can also tell you their food is really good. They are one of the few chains that doesn’t fry in soy, they use peanut. (at least the last time I checked.) But, I found out about 3 years ago about their stance on homosexuality, and that “corporate” donates millions to hateful groups like “Focus on the Family”. About this time, the veggie tales crap started showing up. I don’t eat there any more.

All this being said, whether I agree with him or not, Truett Cathy is devout. He has the right, as do all of us, to put our money where our mouth is. Given that he owns 1/2 of every single chick-fil-a in the entire county, he has a BIG mouth. I respect his right to support causes he believes in, after all, I support causes I believe in…. I just don’t want to financially contribute to those hatemongers, so I won’t eat there, even though I love the food.

Can the Mayor make this stick, probably not in court. Do I appreciate his public stance that all people deserve the same rights? Hell, yes!
http://www.progressiveerupts.blogspot.com Shaw Kenawe

I live in Boston, right on the Freedom Trail. Mayor Menino made the right choice! Good for him. Good luck with your blog. I’m putting you on my blogroll.
http://ethicsalarms.com Jack Marshall

Good lord. Here we have a blog written by someone with no expertise, perspective or analytical skills whatsoever, and it id defending the use of government power to chill free thought, expression and the exercise of civic rights! Irony? Hypocrisy? Stupidity? Ignorance?

The issue isn’t whether Menino is “right” or “wrong” about gay marriage, but whether the government has any right in nation governed by the Bill of Rights to threaten to use government power to harm a legal business because of the political or social views of its ownership. [HINT: The answer is "No way in Hell."] This is pure abuse of power, and totalitarian in flavor. Your attitude appears to be that it’s OK for the government to abuse its powers and to squash personal freedoms when you agree with it, but not when it’s your opinions that are being used to justify punitive government action.

Your answers to the comments show someone without education or analytical skills wielding rationalizations and fallacies like they were real arguments. Your first, to Dwindex was classic:

“1) Most of us here probably don’t live in Boston.
2) Those that visit here probably don’t go to chick-fil-a nor support them
3) We’re not the one’s doing it. It’s your mayor. If you have a problem with this, take it up with him. We had nothing to do with it. We’re just discussing the story.

P.S. If you don’t agree with what I just said, don’t support this site, stop visiting it. Don’t force your opinion on us. (see how it goes both ways?)”

You never addressed his legitimate point, because you can’t. What does the fact that the readers aren’t from Boston have to do with anything? If you write that the massacre of Syrians was a good thing and someone challenged your logic, would you reply that most readers aren’t from Syria? Apparently so.

Then you respond to criticism of your opinion supporting the Mayor’s outrageous statements by saying it was Menino, not you, who made the speech. Yes, we know that, but you endorsed his position: defend it, or shut up. What a cowardly dodge.

Finally, you “defend” a poorly thought out post by saying, “If you don’t like it, don’t read it.” The question isn’t whether you have the RIGHT to post ignorant and poorly reasoned opinions, but that your arguments stink. Menino is a government official with the power of the state—Dwindex properly refers to imposing views on the public, which the government MAY NOT DO. You compare that to a comment to a blog post!

You do not have the requisite discipline, logic, knowledge or perspective to contribute anything to such issues. Please don’t pollute the public discourse with more uninformed “knee-jerk” opinions. We have enough of those already. That’s how fools like Menino get elected.
- sleepingkirby
  
  Please, you’re taking my statements both out of context and with your own twist. That statement was a reply to:
  “Why are you forcing your beliefs on other people? How about Atheist groups be banned from owning property in my town? If you disagree with their beliefs, don’t support them and don’t work for them. Don’t use the government to enforce your bigotry.”
  In which Dwindlex was accusing us of having a direct hand in the Mayor’s decision. We didn’t. So 1) Most of us don’t live in boston. If we don’t live there, how can we force the mayor of Boston on this opinion. 2) He’s saying if we don’t agree with chick-fil-a, we shouldn’t support them. Which is what this number is saying. 3) Again, we here didn’t push or write or email for the Mayor of Boston to do this. It’s the mayor. Dwindlex states he live in Boston. If he does and feels this is not right, write to his mayor instead of blaming us for this action. The last part of:
  “P.S. If you don’t agree with what I just said, don’t support this site, stop visiting it. Don’t force your opinion on us. (see how it goes both ways?)”
  
  Is a parody of what he said. I wasn’t serious. Just wanted him to see that his statements can be made for both sides. Otherwise the “(see how it goes both ways)” wouldn’t be there.
  
  As for my views on this, this isn’t an easy subject to declare that yes, this is illegal or no, it’s not. Because while it’s not done very often and often considered a “bad move” to do, there has been precedent. I didn’t want to make an immediate opinion based off of heated rhetoric. Though, my current thought is “This technically isn’t a good thing to do, but neither was sending the national guard to make sure the desegregation happened in the south. But it had to be done otherwise it wouldn’t have happened or more bloodshed might have happened.”
  
  I would love to discuss this more if you have points you wish me to address or clarify. After all, governmental powers is something that’s been debated since before and even during the making of the constitution. But I would kindly request for you to cool off a bit first so we can have a rational conversation.
- moongrimm
  
  Your diatribe Mr. Marshall, enforces my resolve against Chick-Fil-A.
- Geddy
  
  Well done Jack! It is discrimination by the Boston mayor. Chicago’s is up to the same thing. I love the liberal double standard.
  
  Let the FREE market deal with this. We already have to much government involvement. Social issues like this are no place for the Imperial Federal Government.
  - freethinkin franklin
    
    geddy/wayne do a little research before you start going on as if you know the fact. there are many cases in which towns , cities and states deem businesses not to be conducive to their views of what they want for their local or feel that these businesses are not in the public’s best interests, like strip clubs or head shops, in these cases its the religious right that stands in the way of these types of businesses from opening or continuing operations. there are also cases where towns will only permit for one fast food restaurant in their town, such as middlebury vermont… they had a mcdonalds already and the alderman used this 1 fast food joint ruling to deny burger king a permit to build, vermont also doesn’t allow businesses to erect billboards along its highways or roads, one could look at that as a freedom of speech issue too.
    the mayors of both these towns Chicago and Boston, have their right to free speech just as the owner of chick fil a does and no doubt this will end up in court, but as Americans we should ALL be concerned about anyone or any group seeking to denying rights to any fellow American, ever!! despite what you think personally, its a disgrace to stand with those seeking to deny rights to our fellow countrymen, period !!
    - Geddy
      
      Free speech is one thing, but using a position in government to discriminate is another.
      
      Chick-Fil-A doesn’t discrimate. Homesexuals are NOT kept from eating or working there… at least not that I’m aware of.
      
      Homosexuals can have civil unions eat, anywhere they want to, attend any church, hold hands in public, kiss in public, go to any grocery store,…. But there is NO reason to redefine a definition that has been around for thousands of years. Being against redefinition is not bigotry and my homosexual friends, family and clients don’t think it is either.
Geddy

The Chicago and Boston mayors are both discriminating against Chick-fil-a. It’s called free speech which capitalism will squash if public opinion deems it necessary. Just don’t go there if you don’t like there opinion. Funny how acceptable it is when liberals discriminate.

As for me and my family… I think we’ll be eathing dinner there tonight!
- freethinkin franklin
  
  geddy/wayne chicago and boston are only reacting to the attempt to deny rights to fellow Americans… they are reacting to discrimination, not invoking it without just cause…. what is mr chick fil a’s just cause for his condoning discrimination??? the same as yours perhaps ?? the buybull !!
Geddy

Those are call ordinances that keep the businesses you mentioned out of PART of the city. Chick-fil-a is not discriminating against gays, they are agreeing with a thousand year old definition

Btw, I love your pathetic comparison between strip clubs, head shops and chick-fil-a. What a joke!
- freethinkin franklin
  
  jim crow laws, stoning bad children and adulterers to death and many other archaic acts also have a long history/definition this doesn’t make them right… spin as you wish geddy/wayne its still discrimination plain and simple… your jesus wouldn’t treat anyone in this fashion so why do you?? as for the comparison between chick fil a , head shops and strip clubs , they are all legitimate businesses are they not ?? with operating permits and tax bills, right?? the joke is that you fail to see this and overlook the flaws in the doctrine you claim to follow. your words and actions prove that you sir in fact are no follower of christ, but you are sad tool of organized religion and the religious right!
  - Geddy
    
    another nonsensical comparison from a hate filled liberal.
    - freethinkin franklin
      
      which one of your tool-masters taught you that response?? nice dodge nice spin.. but the facts still stand…. your the un-christlike bigot trying to block civil rights from fellow americans because your fairytale book tells you you should… thats one sad-ass joke that america has outgrown….
Geddy

Taking the kids to Chick-Fil-A again in support of their right of FREE speech. If you don’t like it, don’t go there.

I love capitalism while it’s still here. 4 more year of Barrack Hussain Obama with him not worrying about campaigning 25% of of the time or being re-elected (like he said to Putin), we may not have such freedoms.
- freethinkin franklin
  
  nothing like teaching the kiddies bigotry and hatred geddy/wayne.. just as i’ve said many times before.. your not christlike nor any kind of christian…. hope you choke on a male chicken bone, better known as a cock bone !! LOL we know how closeted you flamboyant evangelicals are!!
- Geddy
  
  Sorry Franklin, just teaching what the current definition is and how long it’s been the current definition.
  
  However they learn a lot of hate and bigotry when I share some of the things intolerant people like you have to say. My kids know we are all sinners and it is NOT our place to judge the sins of others.
  
  By the way, you hate on this topic is similar to Rosanne Barrs. Very sad you choice of double standards.

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